Monday, October 24, 2011

21 'Tough' Questions for a 'Roman' Catholic Part 3 of 3

Colossians Two Ministries (C2M) put up 21 'tough' questions for Catholics, which were just begging for answers. I guess they didn't get any of the memos that the Catholic Church is the Church Christ founded, upon the Rock of Peter, that has preserved the Truth. Someone should get them one of those memos, like this one from Cardinal Ratzinger.

Well, let's answer the rest of the 'tough' questions, shall we?

17. If the Catholic church is the original church of the NT why: -was the Bible placed on the list of books Catholics were forbidden to read in 1229 and not removed until the early 1950’s?

There are some historical problems here. First of all, the Index of Forbidden Books was created in 1559, 330 years after the date C2M gives. Secondly, there was no Council of Valencia (that I can find, at least). Furthermore, there certainly wasn't one in 1229, because Valencia, Spain, was overrun by Muslims at the time!

But there was a council in 1229 that dealt with the Bible. Located in Toulouse, France, this council dealt with the Albigensian/Catharist heresy. The Albigensian/Catharist heretics released a 'Bible' which was a horribly inaccurate translation that supported their claims. The Catholic Church rejected this Bible, much like C2M would reject it because it is an altered version. The Church was simply looking out for Catholics that might read the wrong translation, just like the Church would warn Catholics against the New World Translation (from Jehovah's Witnesses).

- was the rosary adopted from eastern pagan religions by Peter the Hermit in 1090?

Prayer beads have a very long history, and not just from paganism. The Desert Fathers as the late as the 3rd century were using knotted ropes to count the Jesus Prayer. Lower case -t tradition says that the Rosary was given to St. Dominic in 1214. I've never heard of Peter the Hermit adopting/coming up with the Rosary.

In the end, what does it matter? The Catholic Church contains the fullness of Truth, but practices can, and do, change. The Rosary is a practice, which one is not required to pray to be Catholic. So the Rosary has nothing to do with the original Church of the New Testament.

- Did it take until 1854 to proclaim Mary innocent of sin and until 1950 to proclaim her ascension into Heaven?

We dealt with that already. Basically, the Church always believed in the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption, but found no need to define it as dogma until later. Also note the change in dates. Earlier, C2M listed 1950 as the date for the Immaculate Conception, but now they are listing it as 1854. What gives?


18. Why do Catholics not only ignore the second Commandment about making graven images, bowing down to them and serving them but also rearrange the Biblical order of the Ten Commandments to reduce their culpability in the breaking of this commandment as an integral part of their teaching?

There are two parts to this question: First, the Catholic Church does not ignore the second Commandment (as numbered in the Protestant communities). G-d wasn't forbidding all images, just the worshipping of images. If He was forbidding all images, then He breaks His own commandment in Exodus 25:18-20 when He commands the Israelites to "make two cherubim of gold." There's also 1 Chronicles 28:18–19 which requires a "golden chariot of the cherubim." I'll give another one: Numbers 21:8-9, where Moses had to make a statue of a serpent, so that everyone who looked at the statue would live.

The second part deals with the numbering of the Ten Commandments: Guess what, there is no numbering of the Ten Commandments! There is a lower case -t tradition is the Protestant communities, in the Catholic Church, and in the Jewish community that all number it differently. Scripture provides no numbering, and so any numbering is, at best, a good guess. Furthermore, the numbering of Scripture is not a matter of whether the Catholic Church was the original Church. Why is C2M's numbering better, than, the Jewish numbering (which differs from the Protestant and Catholic numberings)?

19. The Bible says that Scripture is the authority over the Church (2 Timothy 3:16), why does the Catholic church claim the opposite?

To say that all inspired writing "has its uses" is one thing; to say that only inspired writing need be followed is something else. Besides, we can simply ask the question "What is the pillar and bulwark of Truth?" The Bible you say? Not so: according to 1 Timothy 3:15 (the verse right before it! Maybe C2M only has a version of the Bible that has every other verse). "If I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth." (Emphasis added).


20. The Bible says that for those who are in Christ, there is no condemnation. (Romans 8:1) The Catholic church teaches that the grace of justification is lost each time a mortal sin is committed and that Penance, sacraments and good works must be offered to recover that lost grace of salvation? Why?

One thing at a time: Sure there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ. But the Bible does not say that we cannot leave G-d. Once we leave G-d there is condemnation. If we cannot lose justification, how do you explain such verses as Matthew 24:13 "but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved" and Romans 11:22 "Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off"? There are many other verses relating to this, and you can check out this article if you're interested.

Now the issue of gaining back that lost Grace. Confession is the way we gain back that grace. This comes, in part,  from John 20:23 where Christ tells the Apostles "If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." If we lose our salvation, there must be a means of gaining it back. Confession is that way. Now good works do not gain our salvation back. Instead, they are a means of retaining our salvation (i.e. not doing wrong, following Christ's commandments, etc.), and of becoming more and more holy.


21. In John 12:48, Jesus says that it His word, not the church, not tradition, sacraments or good works, but His Word which will be the judge for the one who hears and rejects it. Are you listening to Christ’s word, or to the Catholic church’s?

Why is it an OR situation? The Church's words are Christ's words, because the Church is bringing us the Gospel!

I would ask C2M if they are really listening to what Scripture is saying. As I've demonstrated, they often take verses out of context, contradict themselves with their dates, have no understanding of history, and put their preconceived beliefs onto what Scripture is saying.

Part I, Part II, Part III

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